Battlefield 3 beta criticism from retired SWAT member

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When comparing Battlefield games side-by-side with Call of Duty games it would be fair to say that the EA DICE devs concentrate on realism more than their counterparts, especially in terms of multiplayer elements of their games, however someone claiming to be a retired SWAT member is more than critical of the Battlefield 3 beta’s tactical lights and lasers.

Now before we go into details we must point out that this person may not really be a former SWAT member, however we have no reason to believe this is the case, in fact his 600 word rant seems to portray extremely in-depth knowledge regarding tactical lights and laser lights.

According to his statement the lights and lasers in BF3 turns the realistic game into some fake game like Halo (his words not ours), here’s why: Apparently anyone who uses a weapon with a laser or light has to know about something known as “Light Discipline” – which in essence means lights can help you or hurt you as they can give away you and your team’s position – this is why such weapons have rubber pressure switched in real life as it is not good practice to flick a switch and keep these on permanently.

He suggests that the game needs a momentary switch for lights and lasers etc, in real life a soldier would only use flashlights for clearing buildings and cutting corners, they would then be turned off – you certainly wouldn’t see a soldier running around with a handgun with its light / laser on as this would be a death wish. He is also unimpressed by the high intensity of the flashlights in the game and said that in real life the LED lights used will very temporarily blind the enemy but it would be pretty easy for the target to return fire accurately.

Finally this is our favorite quote from his statement, when talking about lasers he says that they are “crutches for those who cannot point and shoot” and he goes on to say that there are so many variables which can ruin their effectiveness and are completely unnecessary for tactical purposes.

As you can see he feels that the guys behind Battlefield 3 need to tone down tactical lights and lasers etc, this was something we suggested in this post, therefore it is nice to get backing from an expert.

Below we have embedded the statement in its entirety (from the Battlefield 3 forums), it’s a good read:

Have a read then let us know whether you think he makes a valid point in the comments section.


I’M RETIRED AFTER 15 YEARS SWAT AND CAN TELL YOU THE TAC LIGHTS AND LASERS ARE BEING IMPROPERLY USED AND MAKE WHAT HAS BEEN A FAIRLY REALISTIC EXPERIENCE SEEM LIKE HALO OR SOME FAKE GAME.

I WAS ISSUED AN MP5 AND MADE HUNDREDS OF ENTRIES USING THAT WEAPON AS MY PRIMARY AND HAD MY KIMBER TLE 1911 .45 WITH TAC LIGHT ON MY RIGHT LEG IN MY DROP HOLSTER. MP5 9MM HAD A LIGHT ON THE FOREGRIP WITH A RUBBER PRESSURE SWITCH FOR QUICK ON AND OFF DEPRESSIONS.

THE REASON YOU NEED A LIGHT THAT TURNS ON AND OFF QUICKLY IS BECAUSE OF WHAT WE CALL “LIGHT DISCIPLINE” YOU CAN READ ALL ABOUT IT BUT IN SUMMARY LIGHTS CAN HELP YOU OR HURT YOU. WHEN MOVING IN A SQUAD OR CELL YOU NEVER WANT TO “BACK LIGHT” YOUR TEAM MEMBERS WHICH CREATES A TARGET FOR THE ENEMY. YOU NEVER WALK AROUND WITH YOUR LIGHTS ON OR THE ENEMY SEES YOU COMING AND CAN PICK YOU OFF EASILY BY SHOOTING AT YOUR LIGHTS AND WATCHING THEM BACK LIGHT YOUR TEAM. FLASHLIGHTS ON HANDGUNS OR SUB GUNS ARE FOR CLEARING BUILDINGS AND CUTTING CORNERS CAREFULLY THEN TURNED OFF TO MOVE UNDETECTED.

THIS GAME NEEDS A MOMENTARY SWITCH FOR LIGHTS, NOT AN ON/OFF SWITCH OR A STUPID HANGUN THAT AIMS UPWARD WITH LIGHT ON AS YOU RUN OR MOVE. NEVER RUN WITH A FLASHLIGHT ON. NEVER RUN WITH YOUR HANDGUN AIMED STRAIT UPWARD. NEVER WALK OR DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR WEAPON POINTED UPWARD, THAT’S HOLLYWOOD CRAP. GUNS ARE CARRIED IN A “LOW READY POSITION” DOWNWARD AND BELOW WHERE YOUR EYES ARE SCANNING FOR TARGETS THEN YOU CAN AQUIRE A TARGET AND RAISE UP AND FIRE. IF YOUR GUN IS AIMED UP YOU SEE THE SAME TARGET AND THEN LOWER THE GUN ON THE TARGET MOMENTARILY BLOCKING YOUR VISION AS YOUR ARM OR ARMS COME DOWN CROSSING YOUR FIELD OF VISION. (STUPID)

FLASHLIGHTS ARE PRIMARILY LED HIGH INTENSITY LIGHTS, BUT THEY DO NOT PRODUCE THE KIND OF LIGHT SIMULATED IN THIS GAME IN ALMOST ANY ENVIRONMENT THIS GAME SEEMS TO PRODUCE A HUGE WHITE AREA WHERE YOU CANNOT TELL THE CENTER OR SOURCE OF THE LIGHT. THAT IS BS. FLASHLIGHTS ON GUNS TEMPORARILY BLIND THREATS/TARGETS, BUT THAT LASTS ONLY A FEW MOMENTS AND THEN THE TARGET CAN RETURN FIRE ACCURATELY AIMING FOR YOUR LIGHT. THIS IS WHY THE FBI STARTED HOLDING FLASHLIGHTS IN THE OFF HAND UP HIGH AND TO THE SIDE SO IF THE CRIMINAL OR TARGET SEES THE LIGHT THEY MISS THE AGENT. THIS WAS DETERMINED AFTER POLICE AND FBI GOT SHOT TIME AND TIME AGAIN IN THE PAST USING THE “HOGAN” METHOD OF CROSSING ARMS AND KEEPING THE FLASHLIGHT NEAR THEIR HANDGUN.

LASERS ARE WHAT SWAT MEMBERS CALL “CRUTCHES FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT POINT SHOOT”. WE NEVER USED LASERS FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS BUT TO KEEP IT SHORT: IT TAKES LONGER TO LOOK FOR YOUR RED DOT ON THE SUSPECT THEN FIRE, THAN TO JUST FIRE FROM THE LOW READY POSITION USING A POINT AND SHOOT METHOD OF NON SITED FIRE. ALSO THEY DON’T EMIT A LONG BEAM VISIBLE UNLESS YOU ARE IN THE FOG OR SMOKE. IN EITHER CASE THEY GIVE AWAY YOUR ANGLE AND POSITION. THEY ARE COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY FOR TACTICAL PURPOSES AND ONLY USED FOR “PSYCHOLOGICAL” REASONS AND HOLLYWOOD DRAMA.

I CAN GO INTO MORE DETAIL, BUT THIS IS MY SUMMARY AND OPINION BASED ON 15 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE DOING THE REAL THING. RESEARCH THE TOPIC AND YOU WILL SEE I AM CORRECT.

Also See: Battlefield Hardline PC pre-order with fall release date

  • JacksonSteel69

    Lol the flashlights do turn on and off. It’s Up on the D-Pad on the Xbox and the T key on PC. His 15 years of experience needs to spend more than 15 minutes playing the game if he didn’t figure out the controls.

    • Matt

      That isn’t his point… at all. He is saying that it is un-realistic to EVER have your flashlight switched permenantly on, regardless of the fact that you can switch it off.

      You can’t deny that DICE aims for more realism than CoD or other military shooters, so why are so many of you content with the broken mechanics of the laser and tac lights???

      • Jeffducasse

        Exactly!  Dice are the one’s talking about it being “the most realistic shooter ever.”

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FUKYPRY2CTDVO67ZNEDYH46UQM dan

        Does CoD have lasers or tac lights? No?  +1 DICE

      • Pie

        Because the option to turn it off is up to the player, not freaking DICE. DICE doesn’t make you leave it on all the time.

    • Armagetiton

      You need to spend more than 15 minutes of your life in english class, because your reading comprehension sucks. He noted that you can switch the light on and off, but he wants it to automatically turn off when you run or sprint.

  • Ashley

    Amen

  • Haaa

    It quite hard to take an ex-SWAT guy seriously when he is raging over a videogame in 600 words with Caps on.

    • Steve Jenkins

      YOU MEAN TYPING WITH CAPS ON DOESNT REPRESENT PROFESSIONALISM AND KNOWLEDGE??? ;)

  • Hobodealer

    You can turn it off, kinda ironic an Ex-Swat guy being a noob.

    • Aaronlif10

      i find it kinda comical that people who play video games simulating war are here calling a 15 year SWAT vet a noob. while i think his rant over a video game to be a little odd (its a video game, not real life), he sure as hell cant be called a noob by someone who probably has never even held a real gun before, let alone shot one.

      • Steve Jenkins

        just b/c this fellow may be a former swat member, doesnt mean he knows a damn thing about playing video games. I’ve been playing video games longer than he has been a swat member and I’ll pwn all over this guys face on the virtual battlefield with the blow torch repair tool…

  • Dynasty2021

    Hit T, the light turns off.

    Stop nit-picking CoD fans.

    I swear, people will find any reason to shoot down a game they dont want to see be successful.

    CoD had it’s time.  Now go die in a gutter. 

    It’s Battlefield’s time.  Atleast DICE wont pump one out every year.

    • 7franko7

      You are retarded. Who mentioned cod?

  • Klex

    He is claiming it ought to be a momentary switch, not an endless on/off.  

    I understand his claim that it isn’t realistic, but I’d rather have a video game be balanced than ‘real’.  If an argument is going to be made to nerf the attachments, it should be b/c they are overpowered – not unrealistic.

    • http://www.facebook.com/echeverriamario Mario Echeverria

      Exactly. Its a video game not a military simulator. 

      this is why millions and millions of people prefer Call of Duty games.

  • Kittle

    Haha he prob never got to shoot anyone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dan-Wyman/583074581 Dan Wyman

    he is right in the case that any light or laser will give ur position away in a heartbeat if its always on…however DICE is developing a game, not making a documentry film!!!!!!! personally, i love the tac lights! i think its a new a fresh attachment to the FPS genre. and its not like you need to use it.

  • Nowitzki2004

    No wonder hes retired!! Hes too old to learn the controls!! LMAO Get off former “”SWAT” team” member. If I see you in the beta Im cuttin you.

    • Fgfghg

      Wow, Perfect example of a dumbass

  • Tate

    His mad coz i owned him in the beta.! 

  • http://www.facebook.com/echeverriamario Mario Echeverria

    He’s right about the light and lasers.
    I also agree with him about how you run with a gun in Battlefield. It blocks you field of view. Running with a gun is much more realistic in COD games.

  • ScT90

    Hollywood crap is what is ruining BF3.

  • Asd

    while most focus on silly lights and lasers, the part about running with the gun in the air is what bothers me. not only is unrealistic, it looks freaking retarded

  • Jonathan

    You kids really need to be able to read the context of what he’s saying. He knows that you can turn the light on and off. What he is saying is that they need to make it almost like how you aim down the sights. Hold a button or key to turn it on and let go to turn it off. Also his point is very valid since dice is touting this as such a realistic game.

    • http://www.facebook.com/triadwarfare Ian Troy Alvaran

      Holding a key to keep the lights on will only be trouble for all gamers as most keyboards can only read 2-3 keystrokes at a time (Expensive keyboards can read 5-10, My logitech G19 can read 5) plus 3-4 fingers can only be placed in the keyboard at a given time (pinkie to crouch and run; ring finger to strafe left, select primary, and to kneel; middle finger to move forward and select secondary and class weapons, and index finger to select misc weapons, strafe right and interact with ingame objects and weapons) Adding a new key to toggle Laser/flashlight will only add frustration as the hand will be stretched too much and will make it inconvenient just for the sake of realism. Plus pressing too many keys at once will make it not register into the game. I guess DICE knows this and has to make a compromise to have it ‘toggle-able’. The only mistake DICE did is that it’s default is ON. They could add a key bind if you want to toggle Laser/Flashlight and see if that SWAT member prefers it that way.

  • Tom

    Err, you totally can turn the lights and lasers off and on.

  • Anonymous

    It’s totally unrealistic how you can die and come back to life.

    • Nowitzki2004

      lmao

  • Trollface

    shift lock

  • Seriously?

    Does this supposedly ex-swat member realise that its just a game and not meant to be a simulation.

    Why can’t idiots like him use their heads to think once in a while.

    • Steve Jenkins

      he must have inhaled to much tear gas…

  • Tyler Durden

    I’ve got experience in tactical entries too, and this dude is correct.  What he fails to realize is this is a freaking game, not real life.

    He has problems with the lasers and flashlights, but no problems with the respawns.  What a clown

  • Erichancock83

    you can switch on and off the light with up on the D pad

  • Terminatar98

    Where was this guy when Crysis came out? You cant even switch the light off! You need to take it off your gun!

  • TheLaughingMan

    Press “T” to turn off your light/laser, as a ex SWAT member he should have taken a look on controls, peace out.

  • TheLaughingMan

    PS: Asign T button to one of your mouse buttons and you will have easy access to off and on.Someone should have told you that everything in this game is based on realism but built for FUN.

    YOU good sir, research that statement and you will see I am correct.

  • Tate

    i bet he loves cod.!

  • Potato

    Some of you dumbasses don’t see his point. So before you go ahead and call him a “Noob” You idiots, Go suck milk from your mums tits first and then come here and talk. Also, Everyone is/was a noob at some point, So what you’re saying is as soon as you were born you knew everything? Lmao, Grow a pair ppl. He knows what he’s talking about and he’s completely right. Join the S.W.A.T or the Army or whatever and then see if he’s still a noob.

    • Steve Jenkins

      I was never a noob. I’ve been mashing since I was a child. Honestly, I challenged the delivery room doctor to a fierce game of Barry McGuigan World Championship Boxing within seconds of the umbilical cord being cut….I of course won with a first round KO, and also got the 2 attending nurses phone numbers… ;)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Mclean/563177261 James Mclean

    Noobs use lights/lasers…… and dumbasses use them out in the open.

    • Nowitzki2004

      in real life………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

  • regele1

    This is so pathetic….

    This is a fake game like COD,because in the real life when you die you can’t respawn !

  • Holly

    He also states how the lights are unrealistic in the sense of intensity. For instance, when I’m shooting the enemy and his flashlight is on I can’t see anything but that light. It’s supposed to be balanced, huh? Yet, everyone runs around with a flashlight shining it in people’s faces getting an easy kill. Hmm… He’s also right in the sense that it gives away your position. I’ve seen it many of times on the beta but the bad thing is, if it’s a team mate running around with his light on and you’re by him then he gets you killed in the process too. I agree it is just a “video game” but how can a game be fun if all people do is run around with a light on shining it in your face? Sorry, I’m not playing flashlight tag. I don’t see how the only thing you got out of his rant was “the light should be able to be turned off”. Also, how does him stating his opinion automatically make him a COD fan or a “noob”? What’s so wrong with liking other video games too? I don’t know about you but, I’m a gamer and I love a variety of different games. Thanks.

  • Scvd

    Why couldn’t he mention the fact shotguns cant kill someone 50 meters away?

  • Anonymous

    apparently this guy never played the game, because you can turn the tac light on and off. it’s on the player to deal with light discipline, not the developer.

  • Yayabrotherhood

    I want to read what he has to say about COD:MW3′s realism/unrealism.

    • http://twitter.com/JerryTheGreat Jerry Acevedo

      Of course you can talk bad about COD’s unrealism because COD is an arcade shooter and has always been like that. COD was never meant to be realistic like BF. So it seems like you’re just trolling.

  • Spectre

    I use the on and off button of flashlights in order to make sure enemies don’t see me from long distances but I turn them on when in close quarters to blind them.

  • Kirk

    I wonder if the spawning thing is unrealistic, can swat spawn?

  • lancast

    This S.W.A.T. dude is a cod troll and anyone who bags the game is a cod troll. fuk you cunts for real! If you don’t like the lights, turn it off??? did you think of that Mr SWAT!!! 15 years my ass, he does’nt know SWAT!!!

    • YourRegularGuest

       Do you  know anything about S.W.A.T? or do you have an in-dept knowledge about S.W.A.T? and are you even working with the Force/Police/S.W.A.T?

      I ain’t taking any sides nor I am a troll or a fanboy, I just want to see your knowledge since you are talking like that.

  • DestryLP

    The graphics were so good, he thought it was a simulation.

  • Bizzckit

    for those of you on console who dnt know how to turn your lights and lasers on and off just press up on the d-pad n down on d-pad to change fire modes……

  • Strobe21

    Is anyone else aware its a video game and can never, ever be 100% realistic because first and foremost you dont actually kill real people? Once you get this fact straightened out, (wait and that u dont actually smell gun powder when shooting in a game), then u try and balance the fun factor with realism.

  • halodfdsa

    This guys an idiot gameplay>realism

  • Anonymous

    Besides the point of realism, I had more fun playing Bad Company 2 beta than BF3 beta, the game is just wrong and does not feel right in many places

    • Steve Jenkins

      Look in the upper right hand corner of the screen…what does it say? Oh yeah…BETA! By the way let me clarify what a beta is for you…

      http://lmgtfy.com/?q=definition+of+beta

      • Anonymous

        Didn’t you see that i compared BF3 beta with BC2 beta? I am not comparing BF3 beta with the finished BC2, so it’s essentially the same thing. and oh, both games has BETA written on top right hand corner of the screen as well.

        • Steve Jenkins

          You compared the “fun” of the gameplay to BC2. BC2 beta and demo also had many parts of the game that didnt “feel right” however, the game on release day was working properly and squads, chat and the other things that always seem to be slacking on DICE beta’s was addressed, so I dont see this as a big deal for BF3.

        • Anonymous

          My point is, BF3 beta has more problem than BC2 beta,so much so that i find BC2 beta more enjoyable than BF3 beta. I am not saying that these problems will carry on to the final release. so BF3 might still be a better game than BC2 eventually

        • Steve Jenkins

          understood…

  • Shootiest

    I’ve been seeing this guys post since the beginning of BF3 BETA… I think its hilarious that it’s even become something to talk about… he’s got a great point about the turning on and off of lights/lasers needing to be quick, but he’s wrong about the realism aspect….

    First off it’s a video game, the whole idea of the laser/flashlight in a  video game is to add a different strategy to your tactics… yes, we, even DICE all know that it’s not realistic way to run with a flashlight or laser everywhere you go, or how BRIGHT the flashlight is, or how the laser blinds you so well……..

    That’s the point of the laser/flashlight, it’s adding DEPTH to the Infantry experience of the video game – Think about it, in Counter Strike: GO, they added a Molotov Cocktail, do you think it’s realistic that a SWAT/Special forces member is getting Molotov Cocktails to throw at Terrorists? NO! Of course it’s not, but they added it in to add: strategy & DEPTH to the game, so you can deter people from going a certain direction…. it’s the exact same concept. Just sayin`

  • Briggs

    You know, You can turn laser off by pressing T.

  • fanboy h8er

    This t**t’s entire argument is undermined by the fact that the player has the ability to switch the taclight/laser ON or OFF. So versatile….

    Shows how much brains SWAT have….

  • fanboy h8er

    “As you can see he feels that the guys behind Battlefield 3 need to tone
    down tactical lights and lasers etc, this was something we suggested in this post, therefore it is nice to get backing from an expert.”

    An expert in what exactly?
    He’s a random poster on the BF3 blog.
    You, friend, really are a f***ing d**k.

  • Joe

    Its easy to turn the light and laser off and on. so whats the problem. If some people want to use them on all the time then they should be prepared to get shot at.

  • Andyp363

    Anybody who has a modern CREE LED torch will tell you when it it is twilight/dingy the torch will effectively  blind you (short term OFC)
    In the woods at night mine will dazzle you to the point you cant look in that direction  all from from 50 yards away.

    IF you want realism why is there no after image, takes about 5 mins before you can see fine detail where you looked at the torch (in your field of view)   things like aiming at a small target (accurately) and reading are out of the question.

    End of the day its a game.   why does light reflect of surfaces so brightly over such a huge area (scope glare and watch glare)   its not an opinion that its wrong  physics says it is.

  • Jurascik

    It’s called the T button. I guess he didn’t know that. I use it quite often, i.e. sneaking around, I will have my laser off, in a giant fire fight I will have it on or if I have to switch to my side arm I will turn on my laser. Not that hard to do. It is a moot point.