Devs Problems: Lack of memory on Sony PS3 and storage on Xbox 360
Filed under: News | By: Daniel
Posted on: November 3, 2007 | 134 Comments
We have heard many gamers comparing the different games on the Sony PS3 and Xbox 360 but today we had a long comment from someone calling themselves “IsThis4Real” and they make an interesting case for both the PS3 and 360.
Also they outline some of the problems both games consoles face and explain a little about the CELL CPU. Have a read a let us know if you agree.
Here is IsThis4Real’s comment:
I honestly wish people would get over the whole “CELL” thing. Its totally, as it stands now, overated - and the concept is still in its infancy. Its not the be all end all of CPUs. Its simply a single IBM Power PC core with 7 SPEs. I think people still make the mistake in claiming and thinking that they are essentially seperate CPUs. They are not.
Its “simply” designed for very fast on the fly encoding/decoding (gross missunderstatement, I know - but I think for some it has to be put VERY simply if you know what I mean) - its specialty will lie in the integration of the home based setup.
This is something Sony mooted nearly 10 or more so years ago, the ability to have every single (Sony based) product in one house hold to be able to communicate with eachother. This is when they forst started announcing that they were working on a single SUPER cpu.Watch that space over the next few years. They might actually get there, but I tell you, it aint going to be this incarnation of CELL, thats for sure.
It is not even an ideal functioning model for multi-threaded coding, an area, which despite a few game companies have said they are able to pull off, is again, still very much in its infancy - especially on the mainstream level - ie to you.
If you really want to be “technical” the PS3 setup is absolutely lousy - plain and simple - for modern game setups. The majority of the work needed for the PS3 is not the so called difficulty of the CELL processor, but its lack of main memory, lack of video memory, and very slow load data-read speeds, and much slower bus speed, all in comparisson to the Xbox 360.
The CELL, despite what is said, is NOT an overly complicated piece of architecture. It has the potential to be quite elegant in fact.
Think to yourselves for a minute, peoples?
You have games on the PS3. Dev kits have only been out X amount of time. Both 360 and PS3 release are identical - dont be anal guys.
Yet, you will notice that the PS3 sufferes time and time again in comparison - just mildly - mind you. The issues being what? Framerate? Resolution? This are problems not associated with CELL, but less memory, fill rate, bus transfer etc. The only way to really optimize is for Sony to “cut the fat” from their supplied libraries. Thats it. Its very little, or nothing at all to do with CELL difficulty. The processors are a non event.
That will possibly be the only major problem for devs for both consoles in the near future.
1). Lack of memory on the PS3.
2). Lack of storage space on the Xbox 360.
Watch out for that one. It will be here sooner than you think, if not already.
Hence the heavy need for almost triple assest content on Blue Ray discs, and very heavy cache useage. But cheers to Sony anyways for bringing something new to the table. But to say that games that are comming out would not be possible without it are just plain rubbish. But not so if on the PS3… Its just a little bit different. Tis all.
You want to talk about technical limitations??
All it will take is one REALLY good game, yet to come, on the PS3, with exceptional graphics and very heavy scripting, and it will absolutely bring that machine to its knees. Just because of the Single PPC core, and small ammount of memory. If you have actually looked at the way the PS3 “works”, it is a very laborious process !! There is so much to and fro before it even gets into the pipeline for post processing, any benefit that the CELL even began to pose is vanquished.
But everyone, just bear this in mind. The Xbox 360, for all the bagging it gets, is really quite a powerfull piece of kit. It has 3 seperate PPC cpus, which basically equates to 6 hardware threads. It has more memory to play with, a superior GPU, and superfast bus rate.
All the BS talked about GOW pushing the 360 is almost toss. Sorry. It was only running on two thread system. And even that engine was very buggy and “heavy” at the time. If not totally overated in its own right as well.
Honestly, if MS decided to put some form of a HD disc in it, Blu Ray or HD-DVD, the damn thing would be almost future proof, with the exception of the over heating, ofcourse.
Because, as it stands, the PS3 only has the storage space over the 360. Its not anymore “advanced” at all, and in many ways, slightly less.
Anyways, ive gone on a bit. Sorry.
Sometime soon, some dev will get around to managing the PS3 with a par excellence attitude. It looks like Infinity Ward might just be there.
Take it easy, guys. Sorry for going on a bit.
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I honestly have to agree partly with smoothnOOdle in that this seems alil fanboyish but not completely because atleast it’s educated. I have all three consoles and am actually most excited about my ps3 due to the games that EVENTUALLY lol will come out for it. (UNCHARTED, Haze, MGS4,LBP, FF XIII, Rockband, ASSASSINS CREED, COD4, and Home (even tho the last one isnt actually a game and the three previous are multiplatform) ) while the 360 only has 1 future game that currently enterests me (Mass Effect (kinda doesnt seem like my type of game, we’ll see) ) cuz Halo3 and Bioshock are already out. Then again I’m kinda afraid that my 360 will eventually die on me cuz i have one of the originals (still hasnt bricked :-)) ) while i have upmost confidence in my PS3, leaving it on constantly to do Folding@Home when I’m not playing Rachet ToD or WarHawk. then there’s the we which does seem alil too gimicky to me (cuz i like to actually sit still while playing my video games) but is great for party’s and playing with friends even if i dont think it has the power to last a whole generation, especially with the 360 and ps3 around. BUT SETTING ALL THAT ASIDE it’s very difficult to compare the PS3 and 360 because they ARE such vastly different machines. first off the 360 HAS HAS HAS to fix the overheating problem, its completely unacceptible for a nearly 30% failure rate, or watever it is. i do agree that its wierd that they didnt include more general purpose memmory on the ps3 (it actually has the same amount except that it’s divided between the CPU and GPU which makes it like less) but it is marginally faster than the 360’s. it almost seems like it would make up for it but im not a programmer, i dont kno. plus, i really think this design could be the future of design, the engineers at AMD apparently agree and are already working on integrating CPU’s and GPU’s. but as with everything, there’s a large learning curve that comes with being on the cutting edge and introducing something completely revolutionary. i kno that the SPE’s arent like full CPU’s but i do agree that the cell is prolly more powerful than the 360’s tripple PPC proccessor, but maybe not to the extent that everyone is leading on, especially till they learn to make the most of it. i kno that the cell HAS to be harder to program for (trying to split anything up to 7 ways would be) but the problems with the games thus far prolly is that it takes a while for programmers to learn the system and how to optimise it. the 360’s year lead gave it a huge jump on this, i mean look at the games the 360 came out with at launch, also not impressive. i believe that with time the ps3 will be pushing the box on terms of games, graphics and processing power, take notice to midway’s recent announcement that future lead production will be on the ps3. as for the GPU, i kno the 360’s currently has better shaders but i do not kno about a better total GPU, ive heard the ps3’s is actually more powerful by the numbers. but i dont kno much about that and it really doesnt matter until u can actually see a difference. i deffenitely believe that sony did a great job including blu-ray because even if it doesnt work out as a movie format, they still have tons of room to work with on games. yes it has slower read times than a dvd but that can be easily overcome, and will be a key factor in future game productions. the 360 will just have to start having multidisk games because i seriously doubt they will opt to include an HD-DVD drive, thus abbandoning the adopters of previous generations with just DVD-ROM’s. the 360 does have an an awsome and currently far superior online service. but considering i pay absolutely nothing for PSN, im ok with that. im excited about home, less for the socializing thing than for the integration of everything, as for the online matchmaking and stuff, we’ll see how that improves. i still prefer the experience of LIVE for now. when i firt got my ps3, i was pretty dissapointed in it compared to my 360; it was far from my expectations. but as the updates just keep pouring in, im now enjoying it and actually preffering it to my 360’s user interface. dont get me wrong, there’s i have a fairly large list of complaints and wishful updates to my ps3 but it has now taken the lead. im starting to see many more games for it that im much more excited for than on the 360, developers are slowly starting to accept it, and it honestly is the most foreward looking console. i love having all my electronics if not incompassed into one object (such as my iPhone), then atleast having them integrated. i expect the 3rd generation of xbox much sooner than the ps4 and then it will truely start to get interesting. but here’s to looking to the future
o yea, how the hell did i forget about Killzone 2? lol that’ll be another game im excited about
NO 136 SHADER OPS PER CYCLE FOR PS3 81 I THINK FOR 360 I KNOW PS3 AHS 136 AND WINS
man, this is the reason why I can’t trust any article or posts anymore. Full of biased comments and fanboy noobs who can’t type properly without using capitals.
Assassin’s Creed is a lot better than Uncharted. PERIOD
Killzone 2 has groundbreaking extreme graphics but gameplay may flop. PERIOD (loads of games that concentrated more on visuals flopped in gameplay. Example: Lair)
One day 360 will suffer due to lack of space on DVD-DL. PERIOD
PS3 will never be as great as PS2. PERIOD (due to the high crazy price when it was first released made sure it will never have greater or the same success as the PS2)
Can someone proffesional tell me whether a CPU with three cores is better or worse than a CPU with one core and 7 SPEs?
This site is so fucking pathetic! If I had the time I would make a research and show all kind of crap they use to put in internet, it’s a complete joke!
Hi all,
I have both systems and I think up to now the 360 is better for games, but give the ps3 a chance time will tell. The ps3 offers so much more in terms of you can use it as a computer. I’ve just added yellow dog linux to my ps3 and it’s a very good operating system… I think people don’t understand the XDR Ram inside the ps3 3.2 ghz read up on it! ps3 ram
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz -CPU
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz-GPU
xbox360
512 MB GDDR3 RAM @ 700 MHz DDR (SHARED)
Unified architecture
What do you notice?
ps3 256 mb ram CPU ram operates at 3.2 GHz.
360’s 512mb shared ram operates at 700 MHz.
-This is an example of how ps3 creates more with little. Clearly the ps3’s 256mb CPU Ram operates way faster than the xbox360
.Even if 360’s Ram in unified.
Ps3 CPU ram beats xbox360’s CPU ram. The better ram, the faster, and better performance. Ps3 will be faster, and have better performance than the 360.
xbox360 shares its ram.
This slows down 360’s CPU. Like intergrated G-cards do with Computers. Intergrated G-cards share the computers ram, i know i have one. This slows down my computer alote.
Roger out for now!
PS they are both great systems!
ok im gonna add my 1 cent to this nonsence. the only reason you all attack the Cell is because you think sonys responsible for it. you attack blu ray because sonys behind it. toshiba never seems to be bad cuz they push hd dvd. ibm own the world of computers and their not bad because they also had a very important part in the making of the cell. same as toshiba. so all you haters/lovers, heres what you all need to do…go out and have a big orgasm and chill allright?
attack blu ray if you want but keep in mind that panasonic has more patents on it than anyone of the blu ray camp…same with the cell and toshiba and ibm…so dont attack the cell just because your looking to attack the playstation 3. if you dont like it, i dont see a reason why you should talk that much about it all the time.
Eamon,
I disagree Assassin’s Creed is better than Uncharted, Uncharted is technologically superior in the graphics department.
Killzone 2 has the best graphics but also uses great combat system like “peek and shoot” Gears of War style. Any game could have crappy gameplay, Assassin’s Creed could, Mass Effect could, no-one knows until you play it.
360 is suffering from lack of disk space as we speak. Project Gotham 4 suffered content cut out, UT3 will have less content on 360.
Your argument about PS3 not being as great as PS2 because of price is wrong. PS2 which came out 7 years ago was priced at $299, 7 years later PS3 being priced at $399 is comparable if you consider inflation, rise in cost of living, people making more money. That’s one of the reason people get raises every year.
Yea, a CPU with 7 cores is better than a CPU with 3 cores, because it has more cores.
More cores = more simultaneous processing; translating into higher FLOP (Floating Operation Points) meaning the Cell can do a crap load of operations at once. Being able to do more in less time is always a good thing.
i could care less for the technical specs of the hardware as long as it performs what it’s supposed to; hence, the games made for the specific hardware should look, play, and run the way it’s supposed to based on the hardware it’s made for. since i’m not a hardcore gamer anymore, after the neo-geo system, i only played or will play games that still play, look, feel, and run like a true gamer’s game. i never bought any other systems after the neo-geo coz most of the games made after it just plain blows chunk..yes every1 of them until ms’s xbox system came out. lack of games on the xbox didn’t bother me nor did i care coz some of the games i found on it were games that meets my category as legit games. it’s also a lot more fun modding the xbox than the other crap consoles out, making the xbox from an ok system to a badarse must have system for me and the other consoles from crap to just plain sh.t.
i’m staying true to the ms xbox console and own more than 4 elites, the beta 360 i tested, 2 premiums i modded just for the hell of it coz ms consoles are just godsends for real modders and because i like having lan parties w/the buddies(mostly chix coz they’re f… buddies who just happens to love playing video games to boot).
i’ve got hardcore buddies who own both 360 and the other sh.t console wannabes(yes all consoles-they are hardcore gamers afterall; and seen all the games for all consoles.) the much hyped games on the psh.t3 such as heavenly sword, rachet…, still look, feel, and run like sh.t. both these games’ gfx is only overexaggerated by the system’s loser fanturds and nothing more. bioshock’s gfx still loox better and certainly halo3 has the best hdr lighting of all the games out on any consoles still. i don’t even want to mention the gameplay anymore coz bioshox and halo3’s gameplay is much superior to any of the psh.t3’s games out rite now . killzone tried to match or be better halo and look where it got them lol-nowhere. hell, kz2’s and even kz3’s gameplay won’t even match halo: combat evolve’s gameplay. gt5’s gfx mite slightly look better than forza’s but it fails on everything else–why do ye think they focused on it’s gfx more than anything else? resistance is another crap game. it’s just like kz with more crap weap, terrible char designs, same crap gfx, and with more number of players that do not enhance gameplay at all. just more addition of crap. mgs is yet another game that tries too hard to be a good game yet fails in everything. the gfx is the typical crap gfx with hazy/dusty looking environmental effects, gameplay is unequivocally stupid(why the hell would i want to go in a drum then roll the drum w/c would make lots of noise & easily rouse the enemies rather than just going in the drum and stay there to hide then go bck out when it’s safe), the nanotech element is banal, the characters are utterly unappealing and most look like homos –just like it’s fanturds. its implementation of stealth is not as accurate as splinter cell at all. oh well, i never did care for any games that have terrible execution and i found most of those games on the psh.t3’s console.
no wonder its fanturds wanna try to convince true gamers that the psh.t3 should be given a try. haha
if anything tho, i mite just buy a sony tv sometime..maybe the 50″ o.l.e.d tv if it won’t blow chunks like it’s consoles.